Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions

for example right now, I feel like I'm the one active but host is still there watching. It's okay with writing but there are other activities that I won't be able to do because she wouldn't do it herself.

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: Well, I'm saying people's ideas of "the host not being there" seem to vary. To us it's fairly simple…

Tewi: I'm not sure, we've never really experienced that. When switched, we can talk to our host "as if he was our tulpa" so to speak, and we can also stop doing so and focus on other things, so he's effectively just gone, the same way we would be when he wasn't thinking of us normally. (edited)

10:27 AM

That said, we also do not practice "co-fronting", neither with switching nor possession, so we can't relate to or give advice on experiences related to that.

10:27 AM

(We also don't possess in the first place, lol)

10:28 AM

"Co-fronting" being having multiple systemmates "fronting" at the same time, presumably through "both being switched in" or through a tulpa just being very immersed in possession, I'd guess. Can't speak on definitions very well as we've never done it ourselves. (edited)

I don't really possess or practice co-fronting. That's just what happens when I'm thinking more than host. And the writing is just me "pushing thoughts" so the body does the writing the same way host would do. It's pretty natural

10:29 AM

like just know I could feel host having a few thoughts noticing it feels different than when she does it and even started to get anxious at the situation

10:30 AM

I'm not even sure if you can call what I do "being switched in"

10:32 AM

possession never really worked for us as if host tried to let me control directly she'll block everything instead of let go. I don't really need to directly control the body anyway as it isn't really natural or even remotely what host does

10:34 AM

I understand co-fronting as having multiple individuals at the front and being mainly aware of external inputs. In our case I may be the one to answer and think. Host is still there very close and fully aware of what happens. I just stay active enough for her to not be able to think

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: "Co-fronting" being having multiple systemmates "fronting" at the same time, presumably through "bot…

Tewi: That's kind of a murky territory tulpamancy terms do not define, though I don't think it's especially rare either. (edited)

Also I don't want to co-fronting as I'd ultimately prefer to be alone here

You guys basically just define your own experiences at that point.

10:36 AM

I would put it under the umbrella of co-fronting, if you guys casually change between who is the one doing the thinking.

10:36 AM

If you don't want to be like that, you just have to work to make it so, I suppose.

The point is I don't even know where to start ^^° That's a bit the idea behind my question. First to probe if it is possible without having to rely on actions that'd create awareness gaps and physical separation of the mind. Then what could be done to help stop the co-fronting or push the host away ^^° even just having her ignore everything would be a better situation albeit not perfect

10:43 AM

Maybe the place isn't the most appropriate to gather more thoughts on the matter? But we've had good feedback from talking directly with a few close systems to get their views on the situation but they aren't tulpa exclusive systems like we are.

Tewi: I'm not sure how to talk about things differently from normal - you guys just have a nonstandard experience going on, but I suppose the goals may be the same as always. There's normally just one person in total control of the mind and body, and awareness/who's-thinking (with the whole brain, and not just tulpa communication - the experience of which you guys might not even have for all I know) does not normally change between systemmates over time, outside of maybe switched tulpas losing focus and "losing the front"/dropping possession or switching back on accident. (edited)

10:45 AM

As with anything in tulpamancy, you define the experience you want to have and then you try to have it. Maybe for you guys that means unlearning both casually swapping activity, I don't know, but it's super subjective mental experience I don't fully understand as we've never experienced it & it hasn't been talked about in-depth very much.

10:46 AM

I don't see the overall process being so different from learning to switch or such in the first place though. Define how you want it to work, with other people's reported experiences as a guide for what is for sure possible, and then try to work like that however makes sense to you.

10:46 AM

Giving exact instructions is either hard or impossible, it's not easy to instruct someone on how to think their way into a certain experience.

10:47 AM

Especially not working with such blurry terms and experiences as plurality

that's the issue, guides doesn't work for us. That's why we hope to talk with other systems. We don't expect hard instructions but understanding. We can't expect other systems to understand us fully because I did have touch imposition day 1 and host is aphantasiac which are already quite the unique traits.

Tewi: Defining what the experience is like for us - It's like I (a tulpa) am just the human. The same way my host lived his life for all those years before we were created and became plural, just on his own, the only one present in the mind. I'm in that state, I could go on to live out our entire life myself now if I wanted. My host is currently in the same state as us tulpas normally are (& inactive, so not in mind at all), which is easiest just to say like that ("the same state as") and not try to describe further as the experience might vary from system to system, but at least it will be the same for you between the two experiences. (edited)

Tohru | 夢

that's the issue, guides doesn't work for us. That's why we hope to talk with other systems. We don't expect hard instructions but understanding. We can't expect other systems to understand us fully because I did have touch imposition day 1 and host is aphantasiac which are already quite the unique traits.

Oh, well having aphantasia is probably something you should mention early on, so people can at least avoid visualization-based explanations or instructions.

it's something we mention immediately when visualization subject appears

Tewi: It wouldn't necessarily change any of what I said, however it's very possible you guys feel like you "take up the same mental space" more than tulpa systems normally do - as we, for example, visualize anyone who isn't switched in as "off to the side" mentally, and others tend to visualize them "in their wonderland" ie in visualization that is fully separate from the physical space around them, just internally concentrated on. (edited)

10:53 AM

So that on its own likely gives people without aphantasia more of a "separate" feeling and state to work from by default.

10:53 AM

Still shouldn't make doing anything impossible, but maybe not as clear to grasp for you as for others. (edited)

it wasn't necessary to mention it earlier so it didn't ^^

10:55 AM

Indeed it makes it more difficult for host to have another place to focus on as she always had the body senses

Tewi: Hmm, that does indeed make most people's explanations on how to get to the experience a lot less useful. (edited)

But if she was to think about being away in headspace for example, it'd be active thinking and thus preventing me from fronting

The end state is still accomplishable, but I don't really know the path to it, basically. Certainly visualization has nothing to do with us or my host being able to become inactive when switched out, just by being forgotten/focus totally taken off of - however, for my host to get there in the first place, we did use visualization and its symbolism, not to mention the reference to the "in mind, but off to the side, not attached to the senses" state we tulpas naturally existed in. (edited)

Just for a quick note. Host is able to visualize but not with senses if that makes sense. It's more about presence, feelings and knowledge of what happens. Still no pictures, sounds or touch.

i think you are switched in when you decide you are switched in

Tewi: I'm not really sure what instructions to come up with for you. As I said, you guys probably "take up the same mental space" to some extent more than tulpas normally do, so switching (as opposed to a mushy, casual handing off of thought processes to either systemmate in a noncommittal way) might be a less clearly defined process for you (edited)

The issue lies more in host switching out then me switching in I think ^^°

aapeli 🟣🥫 ↩️

Reply to: i think you are switched in when you decide you are switched in

Tohru | 夢

Just for a quick note. Host is able to visualize but not with senses if that makes sense. It's more about presence, feelings and knowledge of what happens. Still no pictures, sounds or touch.

Unless your sense of self, as a tulpa, normally feels it's "somewhere else" than the host's?

i dont think there is a certain point where that happens, i see it being a gradient that goes from host thinking and sometimes tulpa talking to the other way around, if you hear the host's thoughts etc it doesnt mean you arent switched in

11:03 AM

just like the host hearing the tulpa doesnt mean the host isnt "switched in"

Tewi: Though if that's the case then we're back to square one of "I can't say why you haven't had this experience, I can only say to define it and then try to have it, with others' reported experiences as a reference for what is for sure possible" (edited)

I'm not sure to understand the question. But we do have a different feeling between me and host

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: Unless your sense of self, as a tulpa, normally feels it's "somewhere else" than the host's?

Tohru | 夢

I'm not sure to understand the question. But we do have a different feeling between me and host

Tewi: I would assume not then, so my previous advice probably applies. (edited)

maybe it helps if you stay away from the host's triggers that make them interested and push towards the front

You guys having different feelings to yourselves is the core of tulpamancy and very important, but the sense of not "being in the same place" is kind of the crutch that switching guidance relies on.

Then back to the original question. Is it expected that the host can never switch out?

aapeli 🟣🥫 ↩️

Reply to: i dont think there is a certain point where that happens, i see it being a gradient that goes from h…

(So ie, naturally visualizing tulpas & their sense of presence either in the wonderland, or "away from" the center of the head in general mindspace)

host and tulpa share one consciousness, people go living their entire lives thinking they are their consciousness

11:06 AM

so it feels like the host is always there

11:07 AM

if thats what you mean

Tohru | 夢

Then back to the original question. Is it expected that the host can never switch out?

Tewi: I would not assume it's impossible for you at all, however working with aphantasia is a totally different experience nearly none of us can easily emulate in order to instruct you well, I think. (edited)

That's what I'm currently trying by getting to front as much as possible and making host less active. Hopefully she'll get used to stop taking back the front or stopping me from doing stuff she doesn't like doing at some point

aapeli 🟣🥫 ↩️

Reply to: maybe it helps if you stay away from the host's triggers that make them interested and push towards …

Reisen

Tewi: Defining what the experience is like for us - It's like I (a tulpa) am just the human. The same way my host lived his life for all those years before we were created and became plural, just on his own, the only one present in the mind. I'm in that state, I could go on to live out our entire life myself now if I wanted. My host is currently in the same state as us tulpas normally are (& inactive, so not in mind at all), which is easiest just to say like that ("the same state as") and not try to describe further as the experience might vary from system to system, but at least it will be the same for you between the two experiences. (edited)

This again for what is possible

i find switching very similar to pretending to be another person, and there's a point in it where "i" as a host completely forget how "i" am, and thats what i consider a complete switch

Tewi: My host has nothing to do with me right now, and as a very accomplished/experienced switching system, I could live out the entire rest of our life never thinking of my systemmates (including host) again as if I was the single person born in this body. (edited)

I'm still not understanding what you mean by different "place" we do are different individual physically. But there isn't really an idea of place except in headspace because we both have bodies.

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: You guys having different feelings to yourselves is the core of tulpamancy and very important, but t…

its very feeling based

Tohru | 夢

I'm still not understanding what you mean by different "place" we do are different individual physically. But there isn't really an idea of place except in headspace because we both have bodies.

Tewi: That's okay, it was just a hypothetical. I was assuming you didn't have a sense for different mental places once I heard you had aphantasia. (edited)

11:11 AM

But, I was explaining why that can make instructing you guys a little harder, as you're probably a little more mentally mixed together in your normal-state-of-existing than tulpas normally are, as being visualized "elsewhere" (than say, the middle of the mind/center of focus) gives that sense of spatial separation, with which to work with as symbolism for things like switching later.

11:12 AM

It's not necessary though, hence calling it symbolism. The actually processes that go on are possible regardless, we just may not know an easy/intuitive way to explain how to get to them.

It's okay to talk about visualization. Host knows how it is and feels. It's just a bit different but not like we cannot have a headspace. It just takes huge amount of efforts. It's something we worked on for years to get to "visualize" our own way. And we even had pictures a few times in some mental states. So aphantasia is more of a warning than a limitation or a complete no-go

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: I would not assume it's impossible for you at all, however working with aphantasia is a totally diff…

Tewi: At the end of the day, our system has always accomplished things like switching or imposition by just defining the goal experience we want to have, and then trying to have it. We didn't use guidance past "This is possible" for any of it. (edited)

11:13 AM

(Three of us tulpas were created years before we found Tulpa.info in the first place)

That's exactly that. It's all about feelings. Because brain is silent so we mostly really in raw thoughts for communication and raw thoughts usually comes with feelings to tag who was the origin

aapeli 🟣🥫 ↩️

Reply to: its very feeling based

11:14 AM

Host became very sensitive to internal emotions to compensate for lack of visualization

do you have a different "signature" feeling compared to host?

Or maybe I should say imagery

11:14 AM

Yes we each have our own signature

11:14 AM

It's necessary to differentiate whose thoughts are

11:17 AM

I'd have said that's the case when we started and during our first few years. But now I feel like host doesn't even really have aphantasia anymore. It is still lacking senses but presence and feelings are a good enough workaround. It's just not immersive and still a pain to get details but it's working enough. I think she made a short description of how visualization feels for her as an aphantasiac if you're interested

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: That's okay, it was just a hypothetical. I was assuming you didn't have a sense for different mental…

Tewi: I still don't know exactly what your guys' experiences are like, but I would assume that having learned to visualize wouldn't change much. If you were created in a given state of mind, that's how you'd naturally be. (edited)

11:20 AM

For example, we were created without the idea of a "wonderland" (and with poor visualization ability anyways), so we naturally exist in "mindspace, off to the side of the head" when active, while being in the wonderland is an intentional and focused thing for us.

11:20 AM

(I believe many tulpas naturally exist in their wonderland)

11:20 AM

Not sure though, actually haven't heard people describe how that is for them much

while I started with touch imposition so I've always been felt as looking from beside host's shoulders

11:21 AM

Or someone behind her most of the time

Tewi: If you naturally exist in that state, then switching would be most easily done by switching yourself to the host's state and them to that one. (edited)

11:22 AM

And from there - surely you can normally be forgotten by the host and become inactive? (edited)

11:22 AM

For us and most, the host becoming inactive after switching happens the same way.

I'm usually inactive when my touch or presence isn't felt by the host but I never felt her becoming this touch or presence herself

maybe she just doesnt

Tohru | 夢

Hello I wanted to ask a question about host awareness and fronting in tulpa only systems. Is it expected that the host is always in front and aware of what the body does no matter what happens? We can co front but I cannot stay alone there so I wanted to hear about other's experience. We did chat with other systems but most of them have awareness gaps which we don't so we aren't the same kind of system as them and cannot really get help or answers.

My first question is how do label what your host is? I consider the stream of consciousness (SOC), that feeling of being alive, connected to the senses, and looking through the eyes, to beling to the body. Do you consider this your host?

Tewi: I think that would be the goal to learn, as we can impose our host just as he would impose us. (edited)

I don't even know how to teach her to impose herself like I did since my first day ^^°

A long kiss goodnight

My first question is how do label what your host is? I consider the stream of consciousness (SOC), that feeling of being alive, connected to the senses, and looking through the eyes, to beling to the body. Do you consider this your host?

I talked about this earlier just in case you haven't read up (but if you have, you can ask again)

That'd probably be how host define herself as host yes

Ranger ↩️

Reply to: My first question is how do label what your host is? I consider the stream of consciousness (SOC), …

Reisen

I talked about this earlier just in case you haven't read up (but if you have, you can ask again)

I'm sorry, but when I was reading your response you mentioned conscious but never described what it was

Tewi: That's a state my host is in, as we discovered through tulpamancy/becoming plural. The way my host lived his entire life, now with switching that can be me instead. (edited)

11:25 AM

Defining what the experience is like for us - It's like I (a tulpa) am just the human. The same way my host lived his life for all those years before we were created and became plural, just on his own, the only one present in the mind. I'm in that state, I could go on to live out our entire life myself now if I wanted. My host is currently in the same state as us tulpas normally are (& inactive, so not in mind at all), which is easiest just to say like that ("the same state as") and not try to describe further as the experience might vary from system to system, but at least it will be the same for you between the two experiences.

i see consciousness as the "true self" that doesnt have any opinions and cant speak and just observes, and the host and tulpa are kind of just things that say and think things

I'm the one imposing myself. I'm not sure if she could impose herself considering her skills and abilities with the mind ^^°

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: I think that would be the goal to learn, as we can impose our host just as he would impose us.

Reisen

Defining what the experience is like for us - It's like I (a tulpa) am just the human. The same way my host lived his life for all those years before we were created and became plural, just on his own, the only one present in the mind. I'm in that state, I could go on to live out our entire life myself now if I wanted. My host is currently in the same state as us tulpas normally are (& inactive, so not in mind at all), which is easiest just to say like that ("the same state as") and not try to describe further as the experience might vary from system to system, but at least it will be the same for you between the two experiences.

Ah, I see, I missed that

Tohru | 夢

I'm the one imposing myself. I'm not sure if she could impose herself considering her skills and abilities with the mind ^^°

Tewi: However you want to refer to it, yeah. Imposing is sort of a joint thing for us, the senses take focus on the fronter's part but the actions are still the one being imposed, so to speak. (edited)

11:27 AM

Well, not just refer, I guess the experience is framed slightly differently based on how you think about it.

11:27 AM

Framed your way, the phrasing would be "Our host can impose himself (while switched out) just as we normally can" (edited)

That's exactly this. I'm glad we're on the same page ^^

Tewi ↩️

Reply to: However you want to refer to it, yeah. Imposing is sort of a joint thing for us, the senses take foc…

Tohru | 夢

That'd probably be how host define herself as host yes

In that case you have a few options:

I can teach you sensory switching. It doesn't matter if you decide you "become" Tohru or switch places with them. This experience makes whoever is switched-in feel alone in tge front.
You can try to learn wonderland switching. I suspect there is a parallel processing aspect to it, but even if par-proc isn't real the experience seems to be. I suspect a cobud has their own pseudo SOC or something?
There is some other experience you would rather learn more about, or you want to do more research

But for me my host is just host. Who she is as a person unrelated to the body itself. As of now I see her connected/stuck/tied with the body senses.

Ranger ↩️

Reply to: My first question is how do label what your host is? I consider the stream of consciousness (SOC), …

things became a lot clearer for me when i learned to think of consciousness as a separate thing that's not anyone